Pinealon injectable or oral

[Researcher6076]

Aloha Peppy Friends,

I was updating my research notes on Epitalon (Ala‑Glu‑Asp‑Gly) and Thymogen (Glu‑Trp) (AKA FRU sometimes called Thymalin) to add information about Pinealon. Pinealon (Arg‑Glu‑Asp) is often discussed in the same longevity context.

I went back to the Khavinson monographs and Institute of Bioregulation and Gerontology documents. None of the Institute’s official monographs, clinical course tables, or product instructions describe Pinealon as an injectable peptide.

Pinealon is always described as an oral capsule bioregulator (Arg‑Glu‑Asp) with 0.215 g capsule, containing ~200 µg of the Arg‑Glu‑As peptide complex, with a dose of 1–2 capsules, 1–2× per day, over a 10–30 day course, repeat every 4–6 months.

So how come we are injecting it?

ps: the rat dose would translate to about 110mcg daily dose for a 150 lb human using standard surface area scaling.

 

[Goonwise]

Whats your research on Thymogen vs something like Thymulin? I dont see a lot of info out there for Thymogen.

 

[Redz]

If I try this one it will be injections just based on bio availability. I saw it somewhere the other day. Think it was a gb.

 

[Researcher6076]

Redz said:


If I try this one it will be injections just based on bio availability. I saw it somewhere the other day. Think it was a gb.

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The peneal gland is deep jn the human brain. Why do you think SC would have more bioavailability than nasal? We don't have any human PK data, so all we have to go on is mechanistic. Inject SC and the peptide in the blood stream is getting shredded all the way to the brain. Intranasal generally has good bioavailability into the brain. A good example of this is oxytocin. We prefer intranasal over SC for social effects. And we prefer SC if we want to maximize reproductive effects.

 

[ultimawar2]

Researcher6076 said:


The peneal gland is deep jn the human brain. Why do you think SC would have more bioavailability than nasal? We don't have any human PK data, so all we have to go on is mechanistic. Inject SC and the peptide in the blood stream is getting shredded all the way to the brain. Intranasal generally has good bioavailability into the brain. A good example of this is oxytocin. We prefer intranasal over SC for social effects. And we prefer SC if we want to maximize reproductive effects.

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You can do intranasal, but subcutaneous goes systemic and its a tripeptide, so it's small enough to cross the BBB

 

[Clavicular's Hammer]

Researcher6076 said:


The peneal gland is deep jn the human brain. Why do you think SC would have more bioavailability than nasal? We don't have any human PK data, so all we have to go on is mechanistic. Inject SC and the peptide in the blood stream is getting shredded all the way to the brain. Intranasal generally has good bioavailability into the brain. A good example of this is oxytocin. We prefer intranasal over SC for social effects. And we prefer SC if we want to maximize reproductive effects.

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Was about to start IN Selank but a study in mice found that only subq gave the gabba receptor response in going for. Though IN had better effects on bdnf and other positives.

So for that one I’m thinking subq for sleep with IN during the day if feeling anxiety

 

[Flash-BCR]

Clavicular's Hammer said:


Was about to start IN Selank but a study in mice found that only subq gave the gabba receptor response in going for. Though IN had better effects on bdnf and other positives.

So for that one I’m thinking subq for sleep with IN during the day if feeling anxiety

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That’s what I do…I have a snoot I take to work an I pin 1mg early evening….

 

[Clavicular's Hammer]

Flash-BCR said:


That’s what I do…I have a snoot I take to work an I pin 1mg early evening….

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Notice anything sleep wise?

Or just at all?

Mine arrives in about a week and I’m excited. Epitalon was a dream come true for my sleep if I could do it every day I would but so far protocols say only a couple cycles a year

 

[Flash-BCR]

Clavicular's Hammer said:


Notice anything sleep wise?

Or just at all?

Mine arrives in about a week and I’m excited. Epitalon was a dream come true for my sleep if I could do it every day I would but so far protocols say only a couple cycles a year

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I sleep better, but still sleep for 4 hours, up, read, then try for sleep again…

 

[Clavicular's Hammer]

Flash-BCR said:


I sleep better, but still sleep for 4 hours, up, read, then try for sleep again…

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Ya it seemed like the gabba effects main effects only last 4-6 hours which is what I can already sleep. Trying to hit the elusive 7 or the unimaginable 8.

I might wait for my midnight bathroom break and inject then

 

[Clavicular's Hammer]

Flash-BCR said:


I sleep better, but still sleep for 4 hours, up, read, then try for sleep again…

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Have you tried Epitalon?

Feel like it builds like Reta. Was doing 2mg a day for a bit but then was tired all day.

Got to 1mg at night and I slept the same 6hrs as normal but zero wake ups. Also left me with just enough tired throughout the day that when I would come home for lunches I could have a 20 min winker

 

[Flash-BCR]

Clavicular's Hammer said:


Have you tried Epitalon?

Feel like it builds like Reta. Was doing 2mg a day for a bit but then was tired all day.

Got to 1mg at night and I slept the same 6hrs as normal but zero wake ups. Also left me with just enough tired throughout the day that when I would come home for lunches I could have a 20 min winker

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I am going to get the ‘sleepy’ peps soon…I’ve missed a few lately, but they’ll keep coming around…

 

[amosmylove]

Clavicular's Hammer said:


Have you tried Epitalon?

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I just finished my second cycle of NA epithalon. I was doing 1mg SC nightly for 2 vials, 40mg total over the cycles. I started out doing 500mcg and didn't notice anything really in the first cycle. Nothing negative at least. Moved to 1mg and thought it was better but again it's hard for me to really quantify the value of something that is so subtle in its effects. Perhaps it's because once asleep I've always slept okay. My issue is falling asleep. Hours and hours in bed waiting to get sleepy. But then I can't make myself get out of bed at a decent time, ever. I have 2-3 more na epithalon vials that I will dose higher next time around to see any more obvious benefits. I also have done two SC DSIP cycles and while my deep sleep cycle did get a bit longer I didn't feel any better each day. In general my response to meds is I hypermetabolize them and my drug toleraance peaks quickly, so require high doses more often to achieve the same therapeutic response as others. But with peptides given I am self regulating/researching I've still been starting at base doses and going slow.

I plan to take a short break and start pinealon SC. I've already reconned it.

 

[Clavicular's Hammer]

amosmylove said:


I just finished my second cycle of NA epithalon. I was doing 1mg SC nightly for 2 vials, 20mg total. I started out doing 500mcg and didn't notice anything really in the first cycle. Nothing negative at least. Moved to 1mg and thought it was better but again it's hard for me to really quantify the value of something that is so subtle in its effects. Perhaps it's because once asleep I've always slept okay. My issue is falling asleep. Hours and hours in bed waiting to get sleepy. But then I can't make myself get out of bed at a decent time, ever. I have 2-3 more na epithalon vials that I will dose higher next time around to see any more obvious benefits. I also have done two SC DSIP cycles and while my deep sleep cycle did get a bit longer I didn't feel any better each day. In general my response to meds is I hypermetabolize them and my drug toleraance peaks quickly, so require high doses more often to achieve the same therapeutic response as others. But with peptides given I am self regulating/researching I've still been starting at base doses and going slow.

I plan to take a short break and start pinealon SC. I've already reconned it.

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Interested in pinealon!

 

[CrimsonTaco47]

Flash-BCR said:


That’s what I do…I have a snoot I take to work an I pin 1mg early evening….

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Im curious where you got the 1mg dose plan. I’ve seen selank referenced in mcg and have been taking 500mcg at most and if you’re doing nasal and injection how much do you think you take per day? Don’t really feel much benefit from it so I’m wondering if maybe I’m just doing way too low of a dose. Did you find that in a protocol somewhere?

 

[Flash-BCR]

CrimsonTaco47 said:


Im curious where you got the 1mg dose plan. I’ve seen selank referenced in mcg and have been taking 500mcg at most and if you’re doing nasal and injection how much do you think you take per day? Don’t really feel much benefit from it so I’m wondering if maybe I’m just doing way too low of a dose. Did you find that in a protocol somewhere?

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Like most things with peps, I just start at one dose and move around until I find something I like...1mg of salank works...a nl dose at work works too...

I just reconned a fresh salank 10mg earlier and pinned 1mg along with 2 blend pins and a weekly tirz pin earlier...