Protocols

[Pocket]

Spit balling an idea here, so please feel free to chime in, poke holes, help fill holes, etc.

So I know it has been suggested in the past that a guide for peps be made for newbies. And Zippity correctly shot it down because there are too many variables to account for everything and we all would not likely agree one one way to do things. It has been nagging at me though because there are some things in this community that seem to be common place that I am lost on and would love to have a thread or area where I can find how things are done.

So how do we have a guide without having a guide? Here is where my idea comes in. What if we have a section where members can post what they have done? Their own How-to thread of how THEY did it. This would help eliminate the disagreement over which way is the right way. It would give a nice space for follow up posts to track progress and effectiveness of said protocol. It is still on the newbs to read all the relevant threads and decide for themselves which one to follow.

I realize that we can (and many times already do) do this in the existing forum areas, but I think if we had a section dedicated to people documenting how they are using peps and their results, it could help others make more educated decisions and less blundering into things. All while maintaining GLP1Chat's neutrality in not supporting one way or another.

What do you all think?

 

[spanky2026]

But wouldnt it have to have like 100 subsections? For every pep out there? Like I don't need to read about how you do Sema, not doing it, not interested. Tirz? Sure. Tirz + Reta, a whole other section. Not sure how you would do it, organize it.

Honestly, when I have a question about any pep, I just use the search function, gets me all kinds of info on it, from user experiences to people just spit balling. I'm not shooting your idea down, just asking what different, unique value it would add?

 

[ladyj779]

Fwiw it really won't work because most people will not use the search function.

 

[Pocket]

spanky2026 said:


But wouldnt it have to have like 100 subsections? For every pep out there? Like I don't need to read about how you do Sema, not doing it, not interested. Tirz? Sure. Tirz + Reta, a while other section. Not sure how you would do it, organize it.

Honestly, when I have a question about any pep, I just use the search function, gets me all kinds of info on it, from user experiences to people just spit balling. I'm not shooting your idea down, just asking what different, unique value it would add?

Click to expand...

You are doing exactly what I asked everyone to do. I appreciate it. My thought was that all the individual threads would be in one section. If you want to know how to do a single type of thing, you search within that section. If you are wanting to just browse and see how different things are done, all of the threads on how to do things are there instead of having to wade through the entire forum to try and find them.

 

[Flash-BCR]

The protocols people are using are all interwoven throughout the site in original posts, and as follow on posts to subjects that may or may not be devoted to 'protocols' in the original post....

I think the more seasoned users can find them easily enough just with searching, and newbie posters can either figure out the search and find them, or stumble across them through serendipitous scrolling through the files...either of those are good exercises for people that are newer to the site/peptides and can be foundational to making a valuable site user...I think we all kinda went that route and stuck around...

 

[AllCourtTENNIS]

I agree that there is quite a learning curve, but I am all for having to search around. When I was new to peptides, I didn't know what I didn't know and having to read page after page on forums was very, very informative. A lot of it was helpful in ways I wasn't necessarily looking for but were incredibly beneficial.

So I guess my take on this is that it takes as long as it takes to educate yourself when you're new.

 

[FartfulCodger]

Pocket said:


So how do we have a guide without having a guide?

Click to expand...

I suggested something similar with my Guinea Pigs post, but never heard anything back. It would be nice to know which product at a given dose, from which vendor would produce which result. I understand if the admins are uncomfortable with naming vendors, but this is a great idea.

 

[lessthanhalf]

Apart from the GLP drugs, most of the other peptides are sadly lacking much in the way of solid scientific evidence that they work or are safe.

The issue I see with "protocols" is that the ones I have seen that exist and are commonly used and mentioned, were just made up by someone trying to sell peptides, maybe with some sort of underlying scientific principles or theory, or by weightlifting folklore, but none have any real science behind them ( like actual human clinical studies.)

One of the most common ones is the ss-31 then mots-c protocol. They are both genuinely interesting peptides with real effects, the problem is neither is proven to be useful in humans to treat obesity or aging or general health. Ss-31 is approved for a rare genetic disorder of mitochondria, and mots-c has one human study for a modified version of it. And definitely no research at all on their use combined or sequentially. But when people see there is a "protocol" it strongly biases their thinking towards believing this is a proven accepted therapy. Most of the time these peptides are probably not going to cause harm, and might even be useful, but without the research there is zero way to know if there are rare severe side effects, or effects that only appear after long term use.

 

[Pocket]

lessthanhalf said:


Apart from the GLP drugs, most of the other peptides are sadly lacking much in the way of solid scientific evidence that they work or are safe.

The issue I see with "protocols" is that the ones I have seen that exist and are commonly used and mentioned, were just made up by someone trying to sell peptides, maybe with some sort of underlying scientific principles or theory, or by weightlifting folklore, but none have any real science behind them ( like actual human clinical studies.)

One of the most common ones is the ss-31 then mots-c protocol. They are both genuinely interesting peptides with real effects, the problem is neither is proven to be useful in humans to treat obesity or aging or general health. Ss-31 is approved for a rare genetic disorder of mitochondria, and mots-c has one human study for a modified version of it. And definitely no research at all on their use combined or sequentially. But when people see there is a "protocol" it strongly biases their thinking towards believing this is a proven accepted therapy. Most of the time these peptides are probably not going to cause harm, and might even be useful, but without the research there is zero way to know if there are rare severe side effects, or effects that only appear after long term use.

Click to expand...

I agree. Hence my suggestion of people having threads reporting their own processes and experiences. They can be roadmaps for others to decide to follow or cautionary tales for others to avoid. If the word "protocol" is the major pain point there, then a different more suitable word can be substituted in for it.

 

[Pocket]

Personally I like Fartful's calling it Guinea Pigs better.

 

[kazza94x]

Pocket said:


Spit balling an idea here, so please feel free to chime in, poke holes, help fill holes, etc.

So I know it has been suggested in the past that a guide for peps be made for newbies. And Zippity correctly shot it down because there are too many variables to account for everything and we all would not likely agree one one way to do things. It has been nagging at me though because there are some things in this community that seem to be common place that I am lost on and would love to have a thread or area where I can find how things are done.

So how do we have a guide without having a guide? Here is where my idea comes in. What if we have a section where members can post what they have done? Their own How-to thread of how THEY did it. This would help eliminate the disagreement over which way is the right way. It would give a nice space for follow up posts to track progress and effectiveness of said protocol. It is still on the newbs to read all the relevant threads and decide for themselves which one to follow.

I realize that we can (and many times already do) do this in the existing forum areas, but I think if we had a section dedicated to people documenting how they are using peps and their results, it could help others make more educated decisions and less blundering into things. All while maintaining GLP1Chat's neutrality in not supporting one way or another.

What do you all think?

Click to expand...

I like it, I think it should be like a file share section. Have a set template made by zippity or mods and you post your protocol following the template and before you can post a new protocol, you must SEARCH and make sure it hasnt been discussed yet. If it has been discussed, comments can be turned on for discussion about said protocol. What do you think ? It wouldnt take up alot of space and would be very beneficial for newbies as well as seasoned members. I find at the moment everytbing is just too spread out when searching for "what dose do I start" "side effects". Or it can even be a poll and thr community answers and then a protocol is done based on the community answers that are highest to lowest ? Sorry brain in overdrive as i really love your idea !

 

[Pocket]

kazza94x said:


I like it, I think it should be like a file share section. Have a set template made by zippity or mods and you post your protocol following the template and before you can post a new protocol, you must SEARCH and make sure it hasnt been discussed yet. If it has been discussed, comments can be turned on for discussion about said protocol. What do you think ? It wouldnt take up alot of space and would be very beneficial for newbies as well as seasoned members. I find at the moment everytbing is just too spread out when searching for "what dose do I start" "side effects". Or it can even be a poll and thr community answers and then a protocol is done based on the community answers that are highest to lowest ? Sorry brain in overdrive as i really love your idea !

Click to expand...

I love your suggestions, but I think there are a few issues with some of them. Zippity has already expressed concern in other threads suggesting unified protocols and guides that there will not be enough consensus to make a singular way to do things, and I think he is right in that. I like your idea of a template being followed. We already have to do that with the vendor reviews, so it shouldn't be too hard for us to do it for these as well. I think though that others commenting their differing protocols rather than starting a separate thread might lead to arguments or at least thread bloat on threads we want to keep tidy. I think if we limit it to the OP's experience being the topic of the thread, each "how I did it" thread would stay more focused and on topic. just my thoughts though. I am happy to let this idea evolve into what the community wants rather than just what I envision.

 

[kazza94x]

Yes i a

Pocket said:


I love your suggestions, but I think there are a few issues with some of them. Zippity has already expressed concern in other threads suggesting unified protocols and guides that there will not be enough consensus to make a singular way to do things, and I think he is right in that. I like your idea of a template being followed. We already have to do that with the vendor reviews, so it shouldn't be too hard for us to do it for these as well. I think though that others commenting their differing protocols rather than starting a separate thread might lead to arguments or at least thread bloat on threads we want to keep tidy. I think if we limit it to the OP's experience being the topic of the thread, each "how I did it" thread would stay more focused and on topic. just my thoughts though. I am happy to let this idea evolve into what the community wants rather than just what I envision.

Click to expand...

Agree. My brain just didnt stop lol. I think arguments would be plenty and would piss zippity off and also other members.

Lets see if we can maybe start with a template for a trial run and if it gets too out of hand, shut it down?

 

[aepower2016]

lessthanhalf said:


Apart from the GLP drugs, most of the other peptides are sadly lacking much in the way of solid scientific evidence that they work or are safe.

The issue I see with "protocols" is that the ones I have seen that exist and are commonly used and mentioned, were just made up by someone trying to sell peptides, maybe with some sort of underlying scientific principles or theory, or by weightlifting folklore, but none have any real science behind them ( like actual human clinical studies.)

One of the most common ones is the ss-31 then mots-c protocol. They are both genuinely interesting peptides with real effects, the problem is neither is proven to be useful in humans to treat obesity or aging or general health. Ss-31 is approved for a rare genetic disorder of mitochondria, and mots-c has one human study for a modified version of it. And definitely no research at all on their use combined or sequentially. But when people see there is a "protocol" it strongly biases their thinking towards believing this is a proven accepted therapy. Most of the time these peptides are probably not going to cause harm, and might even be useful, but without the research there is zero way to know if there are rare severe side effects, or effects that only appear after long term use.

Click to expand...

I couldn't have said it any better! I do believe anecdotal studies have its place but only after clinical trials have proven the safety and efficacy of whatever pep is being taken. The placebo effect is very well documented in research which to me is one of the bigger downsides of anecdotal studies. Often times it's difficult to determine if a pep has in fact help with reported outcomes if other key factors were not documented.

Was it the reta that drove all the weightloss or was it the fact that someone put themselves in an intense caloric deficit with a massive increase in their daily physical activities. Which of the three was really the main driver? Hard to tell if all three were started at the same time.

Anecdotal studies are a good but should be read with great caution.

 

[ladyj779]

aepower2016 said:


I couldn't have said it any better! I do believe anecdotal studies have its place but only after clinical trials have proven the safety and efficacy of whatever pep is being taken. The placebo effect is very well documented in research which to me is one of the bigger downsides of anecdotal studies. Often times it's difficult to determine if a pep has in fact help with reported outcomes if other key factors were not documented.

Was it the reta that drove all the weightloss or was it the fact that someone put themselves in an intense caloric deficit with a massive increase in their daily physical activities. Which of the three was really the main driver? Hard to tell if all three were started at the same time.

Anecdotal studies are a good but should be read with great caution.

Click to expand...

Weight loss is only driven by calorie deficit

Many of the peps people are using have not had clinical trials. Hence the need for anecdotal accounts and this message board.

Eta: I suppose weight loss could be driven by lipo, or like amputation...

 

[Builderman]

Your suggestion seems to be exactly what this site already is. There is a barrier to entry in the grey area already, and with that I think it keeps some people safe that wouldn’t be able to “figure it out”. The only think you are doing by creating this guide is just making it easier for people to get into this without having to do any real research.

All the info is out there…just need to look.

 

[aepower2016]

ladyj779 said:


Weight loss is only driven by calorie deficit

Click to expand...

This is in fact true. However, how you achieve that deficit could come from a variety of ways is my argument. Did you intentionally put yourself in a caloric deficit or did you just increase your energy expenditure.

ladyj779 said:


Many of the peps people are using have not had clinical trials. Hence the need for anecdotal accounts and this message board.

Click to expand...

I agree, when research is limited than anecdotes are helpful but with great caution. Having a guide for a peptide that has not been studied at all in human trials is extremely risky. You're effectively telling people to just "trust me bro". I'm all for people posting their protocols, I think it's a great idea because we're all lab rats after all. But creating a "guide" is moving away from what this forum is about.

 

[ladyj779]

aepower2016 said:


This is in fact true. However, how you achieve that deficit could come from a variety of ways is my argument. Did you intentionally put yourself in a caloric deficit or did you just increase your energy expenditure.

Click to expand...

Increasing your energy expenditure will create the calorie deficit

Whether intentional or not, whether through reducing input or increasing output, the deficit is what causes weight loss

Whether I take glp, run marathons, fast, or smoke a pack and a half of cigarettes a day, weight loss is through deficit

aepower2016 said:


I agree, when research is limited than anecdotes are helpful but with great caution. Having a guide for a peptide that has not been studied at all in human trials is extremely risky. You're effectively telling people to just "trust me bro". I'm all for people posting their protocols, I think it's a great idea because we're all lab rats after all. But creating a "guide" is moving away from what this forum is about.

Click to expand...

You misunderstand me: as I said earlier, creating a guide is silly because people won't use the search function

And language is funny, because you are interpreting guide as some sort of formal authoritative thing when it would literally just be more threads on a message board that people won't search for.

 

[aepower2016]

Lmao I think we're both misunderstanding each other as we're both on the same side of the argument .

ladyj779 said:


Increasing your energy expenditure will create the calorie deficit

Whether intentional or not, whether through reducing input or increasing output, the deficit is what causes weight loss

Whether I take glp, run marathons, fast, or smoke a pack and a half of cigarettes a day, weight loss is through deficit

Click to expand...

Again you're right but how we get to the deficit is my point. I'm not doubting what you're saying as it's true. The point is how can someone be so certain that one mechanism is the reason behind their weight loss when they started 3 different mechanisms at the same time. You and I both understand GLP's does not directly cause weight loss, it instead helps generate it.

ladyj779 said:


And language is funny, because you are interpreting guide as some sort of formal authoritative thing when it would literally just be more threads on a message board that people won't search for.

Click to expand...

See the problem is that many people will in fact see it as authoritative guide. Hence the reason why so many damn people can't even tell you their reasoning for whatever dosage they are on .

 

[ladyj779]

I'm currently responding to the most recent ghkcu thread.

I think you dramatically overestimate people...reading. anything and I don't just say this as someone who makes a living reading, and theoretically making other people read.