Switching from BAC water to BAC Saline (with reasoning and general impressions)

eidos said:


I’ve been using 0.9% NaCl (without BA) for a good month now for 2S31, MOTS-c, and GHK-Cu. No reaction, no more induration, no more bruising. I had already reduced the problems with GHK-Cu by switching to the 3x.05ml multipin, but it still sometimes caused bruising. I’m also diluting the MOTS-c more than before. Pens with 32G 4mm Embecta 5-bevel needles (formerly BD).

I'm sticking with BA for Tirz, Reta, and KPV, whose cartridges last longer.

In another thread, it was reported that NaCl works with Tirz; in fact, there's some in Kwikpens.

Reta seems to aggregate with salinity. We'll have to wait for the pharmaceutical formulations and the patent to find out more.

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My confusion was with Saline with and without BA...I am certain I read that from you regarding using Saline no BA with the Mots and thought maybe I had order some unusable Saline with the BA...but this thread cleared a lot of that up...

I have MOTS-c 10mg, so I may order some Saline w/o BA because at 10mg it is going to be 2-3 doses from a vial. I gather that in a week or two run from first pin to finishing a vial that bacterial growth probably won't be too bad if following a clean recon....Thanks!
 
Flash-BCR said:


My confusion was with Saline with and without BA...I am certain I read that from you regarding using Saline no BA with the Mots and thought maybe I had order some unusable Saline with the BA...but this thread cleared a lot of that up...

I have MOTS-c 10mg, so I may order some Saline w/o BA because at 10mg it is going to be 2-3 doses from a vial. I gather that in a week or two run from first pin to finishing a vial that bacterial growth probably won't be too bad if following a clean recon....Thanks!

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I think saline BA is perfectly fine, especially if you can find it easily. It’s just that we don’t have it in the EU, except from peptide sellers at exorbitant prices.

I have 10 ml vials of BA water (kaishui* from China 😉 and some 10% NaCl to make my own saline BA. I haven’t needed it yet.

* kaishui is boiled water for the tea

With Reta, I’m currently taking two doses per vial, and with Tirz, three doses. It’s not practical to use with pens, as I waste some in the dead space. I’m going to try preparing pre-filled polypropylene syringes and storing them in the fridge. The insulin lives well that way for two months. This means there is no longer any risk of puncturing a septum over several weeks where a biofilm could form.
 
eidos said:


I’ve been using 0.9% NaCl (without BA) for a good month now for 2S31, MOTS-c, and GHK-Cu. No reaction, no more induration, no more bruising. I had already reduced the problems with GHK-Cu by switching to the 3x.05ml multipin, but it still sometimes caused bruising. I’m also diluting the MOTS-c more than before.

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What dilution are you using with Mots-C and the Sterile Saline? I had been using 4ml/40mg vial and transferring into a larger vial because I do prefer 10mg/ml where practical and practicable, but my last vial before I started with the BAC Saline I only used 2ml. I wanted to compare the BAC and BAC Saline at the same dilution ratio ie: apples to apples, but what I'm finding so far is that while the BAC Saline is a bit better vis-a-vis ISR, it's not the improvement I was hoping for. To put it in the strictest scientific vernacular, I'm still itchy and bitchy if a bit less than before at this dilution ratio. When I do my next vial here in a week or two, I will dilute it at my previous usual 4ml/40mg and hopefully that will make the difference I need. I don't see myself going with a higher dilution than 10mg/ml, though I suppose I might if it comes to that.

The other alternative might be to find some sterile saline without BA, if I can even find that anywhere on this side of the pond, and see how that works. My sense of this though is that it's not BA that's the problem, it's the Mots. I get a lot more BA with my Reta and Gluta shots, and both with zero reaction, but perhaps the BA is a small contributing factor. As I've posted up above, eliminating or minimizing ISRs with Mots-C would go a long way toward making this experiment a success, at least for myself.
 
Camlbacker said:


What dilution are you using with Mots-C and the Sterile Saline? I had been using 4ml/40mg vial and transferring into a larger vial because I do prefer 10mg/ml where practical and practicable, but my last vial before I started with the BAC Saline I only used 2ml. I wanted to compare the BAC and BAC Saline at the same dilution ratio ie: apples to apples, but what I'm finding so far is that while the BAC Saline is a bit better vis-a-vis ISR, it's not the improvement I was hoping for. To put it in the strictest scientific vernacular, I'm still itchy and bitchy if a bit less than before at this dilution ratio. When I do my next vial here in a week or two, I will dilute it at my previous usual 4ml/40mg and hopefully that will make the difference I need. I don't see myself going with a higher dilution than 10mg/ml, though I suppose I might if it comes to that.

The other alternative might be to find some sterile saline without BA, if I can even find that anywhere on this side of the pond, and see how that works. My sense of this though is that it's not BA that's the problem, it's the Mots. I get a lot more BA with my Reta and Gluta shots, and both with zero reaction, but perhaps the BA is a small contributing factor. As I've posted up above, eliminating or minimizing ISRs with Mots-C would go a long way toward making this experiment a success, at least for myself.

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I have some MS40. I started small this time, at 2.5 mg in 0.15 ml, which is about 16 mg/ml (I calculated it because you asked me to; I don't find this information useful). That comes to 2.4 ml of solvent. No reaction at the injection site.

I read an article that compared benzyl alcohol to phenol, meta-cresol, etc., with peptides in solution. It showed more aggregates with BA. That’s probably why there’s phenol in Mounjaro’s KwikPens. It doesn’t sting any more, though (I used them for 6 months).

It's not a certainty for MOTS-c since no one has tested it, but we can't rule it out. Try filtering it, it might help.
 
Chili777 said:


I think a great test would be to analyze the degradation over 0/15/30/45 days of a select group of peptides and BAC Saline. Maybe Mots-C, Tirz, Reta, Epitalon and BPC. I think Reta may have been done, but I haven't seen that test, just assumptions that saline would be detrimental based on Reta's structure. I think some degradation tests of these peps exist with regular BAC, so this would be an excellent follow up.

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This was my thought as well. Regardless of if it's most cost efficient currently, if your peps begin degrading significantly faster it would make it an undesirable option.
 
Camlbacker said:


What dilution are you using with Mots-C and the Sterile Saline? I had been using 4ml/40mg vial and transferring into a larger vial because I do prefer 10mg/ml where practical and practicable, but my last vial before I started with the BAC Saline I only used 2ml. I wanted to compare the BAC and BAC Saline at the same dilution ratio ie: apples to apples, but what I'm finding so far is that while the BAC Saline is a bit better vis-a-vis ISR, it's not the improvement I was hoping for. To put it in the strictest scientific vernacular, I'm still itchy and bitchy if a bit less than before at this dilution ratio. When I do my next vial here in a week or two, I will dilute it at my previous usual 4ml/40mg and hopefully that will make the difference I need. I don't see myself going with a higher dilution than 10mg/ml, though I suppose I might if it comes to that.

The other alternative might be to find some sterile saline without BA, if I can even find that anywhere on this side of the pond, and see how that works. My sense of this though is that it's not BA that's the problem, it's the Mots. I get a lot more BA with my Reta and Gluta shots, and both with zero reaction, but perhaps the BA is a small contributing factor. As I've posted up above, eliminating or minimizing ISRs with Mots-C would go a long way toward making this experiment a success, at least for myself.

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I’m struggling with Mots-c reactions too! .. and discontinuing for now. I switched to Hospira saline bac, and changed the dilution rate to 6.67 mg/ml from 10mg/ml. I’ve tried Mots-c from 2 different vendors, and I always filter. I still get an immediate itchy, red reaction then within hours a lump under the skin forms. I noticed that while the solution is not at all cloudy or gelled, there appear to be something very very tiny bubbles, (not like foam) that do not disperse in the syringe. It’s not apparent unless very close up. I would try a BA free sterile saline if I could find one, but like you, I suspect BA might not be relevant.
 
I just paid way to much to have a bottle of BAC saline shipped to me specifically to try with mots-c. Usually I get an itchy red spot that goes away in about an hour. Once it lasted like 4 days and was much more itchy, though. After that I was much more careful about making sure it's room temp before injecting which I never did before. I'd love it if the saline helped. My 10mg vials of mots-c only last a week for me currently.
 
Torque said:


I just paid way to much to have a bottle of BAC saline shipped to me specifically to try with mots-c. Usually I get an itchy red spot that goes away in about an hour. Once it lasted like 4 days and was much more itchy, though. After that I was much more careful about making sure it's room temp before injecting which I never did before. I'd love it if the saline helped. My 10mg vials of mots-c only last a week for me currently.

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Ugh, I've had a nasty Mots-c reaction last for days, too! Disappointed the saline bac didn't seem to reduce the itch.
 
team_chocolatine said:


I’m struggling with Mots-c reactions too! .. and discontinuing for now. I switched to Hospira saline bac, and changed the dilution rate to 6.67 mg/ml from 10mg/ml. I’ve tried Mots-c from 2 different vendors, and I always filter. I still get an immediate itchy, red reaction then within hours a lump under the skin forms. I noticed that while the solution is not at all cloudy or gelled, there appear to be something very very tiny bubbles, (not like foam) that do not disperse in the syringe. It’s not apparent unless very close up. I would try a BA free sterile saline if I could find one, but like you, I suspect BA might not be relevant.

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Try going deeper subq in flank area 1/2” deep did the trick for me no more itchy knots
 
team_chocolatine said:


Ugh, I've had a nasty Mots-c reaction last for days, too! Disappointed the saline bac didn't seem to reduce the itch.

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Darn that’s disappointing. I think i might still try the saline bac until i can try kpv. The last time pinned mots-c I managed to get a lesser reaction but was still uncomfortable for a couple days. Would highly prefer no reaction lol.
 
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